The women I have known who made an issue about "girls" usually had so many problems in relationships they weren't worth knowing anyway. The women I have known who wouldn't care about the word "girls" one bit were usually very strong personalities with whom it would take a whole hell of a lot more than a little word like that to get their hackles up.

I think the idea is not so much "girls" as much as it is treating grown-ups like children.

I don't know if you have noticed - but it is a big NO NO to treat grown women like little children. It is, however, perfectly OK for women to treat grown men like little boys because... after all... we are and always will be.

Hence the social cunundrum of the ages; when we are children we want people to treat us as if we are older ("I'm nine AND A HALF"), when we get older we don't want to be seen as TOO old, yet it is good to be young at heart, except we should act our age, unless treating someone like a child marginalizes them, not to mention that we should all try to be childLIKE and not childISH.

Fuck it. We're all a bunch of assholes...

Posted by RW on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Wouah ! Tu es trop mignon... To dream about a girl whom you saw out your window. How is this possible that you would be still single ? You're funny ! You're romantic ! You have "talent" ! For a french girl (I don't make the difference "girl/woman", me either) that I am, it is a mystery...

Posted by Laurence on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Eh, call a girl a girl. I call boys of all ages boys... So far, no men have staged bra-burnings on the hood of my car. Which is kind of a relief. Because you figure if a boy is wearing a bra, he probably needs to be, for one reason or another.

Posted by Keskat on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I'm totally comfortable with being called a girl. I use the term freely, and likewise use the term "boy" whenever I feel like it. Back in the raging feminist days, I'd sometimes get flak for calling females "girls," but it's been awhile since anyone objected.

When I call Bret "boy," he rattles this off in an exaggerated redneck drawl: "Boy? Who you callin' 'boy'? I got 12" of pecker, 29 lbs. of balls, and enough hair on my ass to start a forest fire! I ain't no 'boy'!"

No idea where he picked that up from . . .

Posted by SJ on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I'm 39, work with women my age, older and younger and will still say "this girl I work with..."

However, when refering the males I say, "this man I work with..."

Slap me, k?

Posted by Lisa on June 10, 2006 | Reply

There are far worse things to be called than a girl. When referring to my friends, I may say something like "the girls and I". So you can call me a girl anytime, and I promise I won't burn any bras on your car - damn things are too expensive to burn over a name anyway!

Posted by Mooselet on June 10, 2006 | Reply

i'd take girl over ma'am ANY day. the only time i don't like the term girl is when it is used like this: "you throw like a girl" or "you hit like a girl" (when trying to put down a guy). other than that, girl is a-ok with me (and i am a feminist- fancy that!)

Posted by ms. sizzle on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Call them girls, ladies, women - whatever you want. Just do NOT call them the "B" word. Ever. Trust me on this one.

Posted by Jeff on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I'm with Ms. Sizzle. The guy at the pharmacy called me "Miss" the other day, and I was all giggles all the way to the car. There's something about breaking the plane of 30 that makes people want to call you "ma'am," and I don't like it one bit. I have a notion that your cute 30-something would have been flattered to know that you thought of her as a girl!

Posted by babyoog on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I know a group of women who prefer to be called women, and yet, one day I was present and one walked in and referred to the other as "ladies," something they would prefer a man not do.

Posted by delmer on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Dave ... this is sort of unrelated to this entry, but something odd caught the corner of my eye. Maybe it's just me, but the typeface used for Dave's Flickr Gallery hit me in a way that suggested it might be something even more interesting than photos of your travels.

There was a reason 'flick' never appeared in the comics.

Posted by delmer on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Damn. I was seriously excited to scroll down and see Cartoon Dave desperately attempting to put out a burning bra.

And as far as the 'girl' thing...who cares? I *AM* a girl. I'm a girl and a woman and a female and a bitc...oh...not that last one. But girl? Of course!

Posted by Chase on June 10, 2006 | Reply

It will always be "girls" and "guys" to me. I hate being called "maam" or anything like that.

I'm used to girl, doesn't bug me one bit.

No bra burning here, sorry. :)

Posted by adena on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I don't care about the girl thing either, and I am one of those feminist non-bra wearing types... A girl is a reference for a female, just at boy is a reference for a male. And I use boy all the time, ie. I used to date this boy, I work with this boy... but I think 50 is about the age that I stop using this to describe people male or female. There is no way that I can justify calling someone my mom's age a girl.

So go ahead, call a girl a girl. Do you mind being referred to as a boy?

Posted by Apricoco on June 10, 2006 | Reply

oh no no...we have no problem with you calling us "girls" just as long as we get to call you "boys" and call your "little guy" well..."little guy."

that doesn't bruise the ego does it?

And where exactly is your car parked? we have all this lighterfluid and nowhere to put it.

Posted by raving feminist on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Don't worry. I wont be burning any bra's on the hood of your car........ well, not unless you ask very nicely.

Posted by Michelle on June 10, 2006 | Reply

You can call me anything except squaw. It's actually a very derogative term, not meaning 'woman', but rather womans....ahem...naughty bits.

On a different note, I am shocked you did not mention this holiest of holy days. Happy Liz Hurley's birthday!!

Posted by FrancesDanger on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I say "girls" and "boys" in informal contexts. For example, the new boy is "the new boy."

At work I use man and woman.

But boy/girl is so much more fun! :)

Posted by lizriz on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I actually have been known to refer to my brothers as the Girls, so I guess you could say that it doesn't really matter, at least not to me. It may very well to them.

I don't like to be called babe, though. I'm not sure why, it just grates on my nerves.

Posted by Tracy Lynn on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Here's the deal with girl: when I am in a meeting with a CIO or CEO or CFO (and I am more often than I want to think about), as soon as a 'man' calls me girl, I am seen as a girl on some level, with the inteligence of a girl. It undermines my thoughts, opinions, beliefs, theories, etc... in that situation. I then have to spend time on damage control of being called a girl (which means I act stoic, use data, logic and fact to get my point across, which I just spent some amount of time doing. Out of that situation I could care less (especially when a cute guy looks out his window and hopefully swoons about me).

Posted by Arwen on June 10, 2006 | Reply

Eh - I call all the women I work with girls, and many are in thei 30s and 40s. Young lady - that ticks me off, because that's what my grandmother called me when she was angry with me. But girl? Not a problem.

Posted by Erin on June 10, 2006 | Reply

I'd preffer to be called girl any time instead of 'maam', lady, señora, ..arg! It makes feel younger. LOL

Posted by AsharEdith on June 10, 2006 | Reply

How did people back in the day get away with calling them "broads"?

They still got tail.

Posted by Chanakin on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I do what lizriz does. Use girls and boys informally. I call all my gal friends "the girls" and sometimes we even let "the boys" join us in our parties and gatherings.

I, too, am a raging feminist. I kinda feel like we have to be during these anti-woman/conservative Republican days in the US.

Posted by karla on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I'm sure the last thing you want on your blog is gynecologist talk.. heh.

....BUT, my gyn refers to his patients as girls. I *love* that about him. I call all my gal pals girls (and I'm in my 40's). I had a slumber party last night and the last thing they heard from me was, "good night girls".

Personally, I like being called a girl. I am a girl, dammit.

Posted by RisibleGirl on June 11, 2006 | Reply

Lights a match.

Posted by Nancy on June 11, 2006 | Reply

Do you ever think that maybe you over-think things?

Posted by Kristy on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I've taken to calling only my pre-teen niece and her friends "ma'am" -- I find it disarms them.

The older I get, the more I want to still be referred to as "girl." Like you said, we spend the first two decades of our lives being "girls" it's really a hard thing to get out of. I'll probably be a "girl" til I'm in the nursing.

I call other girls "chicks" at times, but obviously it doesn't have the same connotation it would if a man said it.

For me, "Lady" is reserved for chicks that piss me off, like "This f**king lady cut me off in line" or "This f**king stupid ass lady at work is such a moron." Men typically use "ladies" when trying to be suave: "How are you lovely ladies enjoying your evening?"

I think "girl" is appropriate for a cute chick out on the street as long as you're not being a pig. And stay away from the B, C, and T words -- those are always a no-no.

Posted by Eve on June 11, 2006 | Reply

Being called a girl- that's much better than being called a woman. That makes me feel old.

I call anyone my own age or slightly older a girl, otherwise they're ladies...or older ladies..or old ladies.

Posted by Ariana on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I'm very okay with being called a 'girl'. The ones who make a stink about it are the same ones who become offended when a guy holds a door open for them and, personally, I think those 'girls' need a swift kick in the teeth... ;)

Posted by Dawn (webmiztris) on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I don't care if you call me a "girl." I think I'd actually feel weird hearing someone refer to me as a "lady" or a "woman" (although I'm in my mid-twenties and should come to terms with the fact that means I'm an adult). I call men "guys" for the most part and refer to women as "chicks."

Posted by Rabbit on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I overthink things too...although I'm waiting to be called a racist soon...it's been almost a month!

I'm a girly-girl...see...2 girls in one!

Posted by Miss Ann Thrope on June 11, 2006 | Reply

i'd rather be called a girl rather than chick or ma'am.

i refer to my friends as girls. so it's all good in my book.

Posted by alice on June 11, 2006 | Reply

I'll take "girl". No problems here. You can even call me, "young lady". I still refer to cute boys as "boys" even though they are "men".

Posted by Deb_LA on June 12, 2006 | Reply

In my former life I worked in academia and one comes across some dead serious types there (as well as some wicked funny ones). There was one woman--and I do mean woman as there was nothing girlish about her--who insisted on referring to our students as "women." They were, mind you, between 18 and 22. It always made me laugh because I just can't think of males that age as "men." She was adamant that every female became a woman at, ahem, puberty.

Consistency would demand that those 8th grade guys I remember would be referred to as men. Too funny!

Posted by Susan on June 12, 2006 | Reply

Part of the problem, it seems, is that the English language gives us no completely symmetric female equivalent for "guys". For us, "guy" can apply to young fellas and old dudes alike. It's informal and all-purpose -- no hidden meaning or tinge of disrespect. I suppose "ladies" is close to the same, but it also has to share meanings with its more formal cousin -- the counterpart to "gentlemen". It's too bad that "girls" has been tainted with an age association, because that would have seemed like a good candidate. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the phrase "night out with the girls" seems like a good match for "night out with the guys". I guess the problem occurs when "girls" is used in a context that requires more formality or age appropriateness. Does it seem like guys just don't care as much about those distinctions applied to themselves?

Posted by Steve on June 13, 2006 | Reply

At 34 you can call me a girl anytime!!

Posted by jenny on June 15, 2006 | Reply